Come to think of it, did ANY of them (EVEN CLOUD!?) mention Sephiroth at all during Chapter 17 until the moment he stabbed Barret?
FINAL FANTASY VII REMAKE - Spoiler Discussion [Check Threadmarks For Story Details]
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Come to think of it, did ANY of them (EVEN CLOUD!?) mention Sephiroth at all during Chapter 17 until the moment he stabbed Barret?
The fact Rude drops the plate is probably not so great tbh considering he's not really evil... just devoted to his job.
I've known people like that. Asian people especially.
What I noticed more is that they didn't use his younger ponytail design from BC/CC in the flashback. Him letting his hair down was supposed to be his defining moment stepping into his leadership role.
Yes first we see Sephiroth, then we see Jenova, then we finally see the clone. Once the fight is over, the clone is the one that's surrounded by all that black smoke.
I'm sure this has been said already, but I'm replaying the game on hard mode and one of Sephiroth's first scenes in Chapter 2 is him standing next to Aerith and saying "You're too weak to save anyone".
Absolutely convinced the 7 seconds till the end is him killing Aerith.
Absolutely convinced the 7 seconds till the end is him killing Aerith.
The Sephiroth you fight at the end has his wing feathers which are from AC, knows all about Cloud and even asks him to join him in defying destiny, shows the exact effects of meteor destroying midgar and makes sure Cloud focuses his hatred on him.
There is no possible way this isn't the real Sephiroth who was defeated. He shouldn't already know what Cloud is capable of.
They did not. It was SO bizarre. The entire Chapter 17 I kept waiting for someone to say, "Hey...we gonna talk about that guy with the big fucking sword a moment ago?"
Sephiroth's existence isn't too alien to the planet when compared to any other Soldier. He has one minor difference between other Soldiers, but in the end, it's Jenova that binds them all together.
By the way, are OG 7 spoilers cool for here or should we mark them?
that would make no sense since Aerith knows she will be killed in the remake timeline so she goes through the portal but regrets it afterwards. Now she knows she probably wont die or something.
It's been said outright that it's 7 seconds until the end of the world. Almost every other translation but the English one makes this far more clear. Also the Chapter menu also says that the "end of creation" is a moment frozen at exactly 7 seconds before the Planet's demise.
isn't the end of creation place where Cloud omnislashes Sephiroth?
Yes and you see Jenovas body on the ground. We already know pieces of Jenovas body will trigger fights with her just like in the original. The only implication you can get is that the clones can now be part of Jenova when she appears. This doesn't mean the clones now have the power to turn into Sephiroth otherwise characters would have seen him during the times Cloud did. Tifa would see Sephiroth when the clone fell out his apartment and Aerith would see Sephiroth when the other clone touched Cloud.
I know a lot of people say Chapter 18 is where the plot breaks down, but I really think it's 17. 17 still has some good moments for sure but the character breakdowns begin there and the storytelling starts to lose all focus in favor of this rapidfire THIS THEN THIS THEN THIS THEN THIS mindset that makes it impossible for anything to be dwelled on long enough to have any impact.
Which is, probably not coincidentally, EXACTLY what starts happening in the last four or five hours of KH3. Constant inundation of insane shit so you don't have enough time to be like "wait that was dumb" or "hold on that makes no sense".
Cloud Omnislashes Sephiroth in a black void, I'm pretty sure. The scene at the end of this game between Cloud and Seph is stated in the chapter menu to be an illusion of the final seven seconds of the Planet's life.
Interesting stuff ..... I got a really big feeling Sephiroth will be more scary in the remake timeline. All we fought was an illusion anyway and I assume the real Seph is the one in the edge of creation scene.
The way the whole party no-sold that moment was so weird to me. Everything from Hojo's lab onward is the sloppiest writing I've ever seen in a Final Fantasy game. It wouldn't shock me to learn that the closing bits were more or less thrown together relative to everything else.
Yes in the original, Sephiroth uses Jenova as an avatar. But in this we see Sephiroth pick up the body afterwards, which means he's using something else to project himself with (i.e the clones). Same thing happens in an earlier scene on that bridge platform. They see Jenova in a tube, yet Sephiroth is standing right infront of it.
I just rewatched the scene and I don't think Sephiroth actually appeared there? I originally was sure he did because the Jenova tank is right there but Hojo says "and thus is the hypothesis is proven correct" which makes me think it wasn't real and purposefully setup by Hojo to test Clouds response. This would explain them not reacting past this scene if it was made clear it was fake.
Now I could be wrong and it's just a poorly thought out scene but when I just watched it seemed to be a test for everyone much like what he does after.
Just finished the game. I'm upset with the ending...actually pissed. 99% of the game felt perfect to me but then Aeris just had to spout crazy bullshit at the end of the highway and watch the entire plot line just fall into Kingdom Hearts fan fiction. I'm not sure I would have been surprised with how ridiculous that was to see Sephiroth take off a mask at the edge of creation to reveal he's really Xenhanort. Cloud is Sora, Goofy revived Biggs and Donald Duck is the one casting Meteor to destroy the planet.
Add in the Zack stuff which totally takes away from the great Crisis Core storyline and Cloud's backstory...I don't know...I'm not happy about it. I get adding on some cool extra characters/scenes...I was rolling with some of the extra expanded levels/padding as well but this just deviates so far from the original...BOOOOOO! Not like this Square!!!!
Add in the Zack stuff which totally takes away from the great Crisis Core storyline and Cloud's backstory...I don't know...I'm not happy about it. I get adding on some cool extra characters/scenes...I was rolling with some of the extra expanded levels/padding as well but this just deviates so far from the original...BOOOOOO! Not like this Square!!!!
It seems like almost everyone is looking at him though? I've only seen the scene once so far though
Agreed. I was enjoying the game, despite it's flaws, until Chapter 17. That's when it really lost me, and the ending sealed the deal.
At minimum, Tifa reacts to seeing Sephiroth. You could argue the others don't maybe.
I should clarify. They all do see him but it's not actually Sephiroth. It's a projection of some sort since we know Hojo can't actually make him appear.
It's the first part of his tests that he continues when the party splits.
Opened up YouTube after listening to the OST all day the last two days. Now my recommendations are full with "Theory about the 7 seconds", "Things everyone is missing from the 7 seconds line" or "Final Fantasy VII Remake's ending actually explained" (you know that one is probably a winner considering that nobody can fully explain it without going into unconfirmed theory territory, lol) videos or hot takes like "Did Square-Enix lie about the FF7 Remake?". The next years will be kind of crazy, won't they? Haha... Mind that I do like discussing theories and such. I mean we're doing it in here, too. But depending on how it's done it can also be somewhat tiring in a way. Hard to explain.
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If you go back to the part of the Jenova pod where Sephiroth appeared you can clearly see where the Masamune cut through the catwalk Cloud was on. But nobody ever really talks about him after that. It's so fucking weird.
They all see him and then nobody brings it up later. It's so bizarre. I was waiting for somebody to be like "wtf was Sephiroth doing here?"
Oh I know the platform was destroyed but again I don't think this was actually Sephiroth. The fact he speaks makes it even weirder because during the scenes where it carries Jenova he says nothing.
It's either some kind of projection or fake creation to test Cloud. When Cloud falls we don't see what happens with the others after which would explain them realizing it wasn't actually Sephiroth.
I think the scene should have been much clearer but they cutoff the part we as players should have seen.
Yeah. And this is why I joked to my brother, but half-serious, that it felt like we had 2 different teams who worked on their pieces separately, then come together and stitched it all together. Take this for example, right after when you first take control of Aerith and Tifa after Cloud gets knocked below:
Tifa: "Hey, you think Cloud's doing okay? He's been acting really weird lately. More than usual."
He's acting exactly how I would expect someone to act after seeing a ghost from 5 years ago! And you should be acting weird about it too, Tifa!
I honestly think it's just bad writing. Hojo seems COMPLETELY aware Sephiroth is there and is playing it to his advantage ("I would love to meet their offspring", etc) but the entire party seems to catch the idiot ball for the entirety of Chapter 17 and 18 and none of them really seem to want to talk about a dead man attacking them or stabbing Barret or anything.
It really feels like the developers didn't intend for Sephiroth to be there until the office like in the original game but then randomly pasted him into early Chapter 17 for a trailer shot, since man did that shot of Cloud leaping at him get a TON of mileage in trailers.
The wing is a product of "becoming a monster". Angeal and Genesis both grow wings after realizing the truth and "ascending." Sephiroth never got the chance to use that form in FF7 since he was immediately killed by Cloud. Plus that world and his body are an illusion.
Sephiroth knows all about Cloud. Cloud was the one that killed him. Of course he knows what Cloud is capable of. He's always taken special interest in fucking with Cloud.
He asks Cloud to lend him his strength as a part of Reunion and also because the new interpretation of his goal is he wants to "save" the world from its fated end by having it all join with him.
There's nothing about that Sephiroth that can't be explained without it being a time travelling Sephiroth that knows the plot.
Sephiroth is different in that had Jenova as part of his DNA since before birth so its more part of his being. Regular Soldiers just get injected as adults, so it's more like a virus than a part of their bodies. Also, after he died, he merged with Jenova's head and essentially become Jenova. He is the antithesis of the Cetra.
Glad to finally finish the game and be a part of it! Wow I did not expect that much of a noise dive in writing though. To be so faithful to the OG for 99% of the game and then just turn the story loose at the end just soured me big time.
I'm with you. Writing around Sephiroth with regards to the rest of the party is poorly done in the last few chapters
Tifa at the very least should have had a major reaction but never does through the whole ending. Last time she saw Sephiroth he murdered everyone in her village, burned it to the ground, murdered her dad, and she tried to kill him with his own sword but he beat the shit out of her. But instead she has like no reaction and then fights him with perky one-liners.
There was a severe lack of concern over Cloud getting like 30 serious and sudden headaches + visions. They ask if he's okay... but no answer should lead you to believe him.
Yeah it really does get sloppy towards the last few chapters. Plot holes, characters not reacting to certain things, and the entire mess that is the ending, all culminating to the game finishing on pretty a bad note.
They needed to dial back the headaches. Nomura really needs someone, every once in a while, to tell him that less can be more.
Like for all the work they put into the characters, almost NONE of them feel like themselves in Chapter 18 once Seph shows up at the end of the highway. Aeris becomes a soft-spoken Kingdom Hearts exposition-bot, Tifa completely blanks on anything resembling a reasonable reaction to Sephiroth's presence, and Barret...
Actually, Barret and Red are fine. Though it's kinda weird Barret seems to be having fun killing the entities that just saved his life TWICE in the past fifteen minutes.
Where are you seeing this? I just took a look in chapter select and don't see what you're talking about.
So Sephiroth is just straight up going to not attempt to kill her? That would make no sense. He's still going to try, she's arguably his biggest threat.
Tifa knows he's messed up without knowing all the details. Aerith does too at some level. And Barret doesn't seem like the guy to confront Cloud about this.
I also don't think his hallucinations play out that dramatically to everyone else as we see it. A lot of camera and cutscene hijinks make it seem like more than it really is. The worst it gets is Cloud cowering from Sephiroth after the plate fell, and that lasts like 5 seconds.
Go into the chapter objectives screen and then press L1 or R1 until you get to Chapter 18. The last node on the Chapter 18 objectives menu states that "Sephiroth takes Cloud to a vision of seven seconds before the Planet's demise" or something along those lines.
I don't think Hojo is able to create a meeting between Sephiroth and Cloud. The only two explainations for that scene is that it was fake(the damage obviously not) to test Clouds response or somehow Jenova being close enough to a clone can trigger her being Sephiroth even though she is in a tank.
The scene isn't executed well which I can agree but I really don't think its there with no reason. The issue will be if they ever actually address it.
Normally I would actually agree here but I think the fact things are now being pushed onto Cloud like clone encounters and Sephiroth appearing where he shouldn't would trigger him a lot.
It makes a hell of a lot of sense if he knows that killing her like he did in the original is what ultimately screwed him.
I don't think Hojo has that kind of capability. Hojo knew Sephiroth was in the building but the "face to face" he was talking about was Aeris and Sephiroth, not Cloud and Sephiroth. It's pretty clear he wanted Sephiroth to be the one to impregnate Aeris so he could get his hands on more Cetra genetic material.
sorry what? Remake Seph knows he loses already in the original timeline. If he plays his cards the same way then he's gonna lose again. We're expecting a bigger Sephiroth threat here like Aerith makes him out to be.
Found it! Thanks. I guess I'll have to wait and see what this means...not sure why Sephiroth would bother, but I guess he really wants Cloud to join him in whatever he's going to do to end the planet.
Yeah I highly doubt he'll go for the same method, but there's no way he's not going to try imo.
Right. Well after being shown the chapter description, seems like that wasn't what he was going for. Regardless, I still think he's going to try and kill her. Many different ways to do that.
What ultimately screwed Sephiroth was Cloud and co. going down into the Northern Crater to kick his ass. By the time Meteor is colliding with the planet, Sephiroth's already out of the picture.
Yeah, he's already dead by the time Aeris makes her Hail Mary with the lifestream.
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