Alexandre
Stellantis gave a detailed account of Maserati's situation in his report to investors. He was less forthcoming about Alfa Romeo. The Italian brand was the subject of a dedicated press release, announcing +39 % of sales compared with N-1, including +10 % in the third quarter of 2023.
For certain European countries, the press release states:
- Italy: + 95.3 %
- Germany + 83 %
- Belgium + 82 %
- France + 72 %
For the region, Africa-Middle East + 128 %, including + 160 % for Turkey. And in Asia, the press release shows just +27 % compared with Q3 2022.
What does this mean in practical terms? Let's start with a reminder 2022 figures. It was Alfa Romeo's worst year in two decades. It's therefore only logical to congratulate ourselves on achieving a better result than last year with a new compact SUV. As a reminder, Jean-Philippe Imparato would like to reach the target of 80,000 to 90,000 sales by 2023.
But what does this mean by country for the 3rd quarter of 2023? We don't yet have all the registrations for every country, but here are the main ones: Italy, USA, Germany, France, Spain, Turkey and Belgium.
We can see that Italy is still by far the largest market for Alfa Romeo. In the USA, although the first Tonales have been delivered since June, the brand is not particularly off the ground (the USA figure may vary between 900 and 1,000 units by September 2023, depending on sources). In Germany, registrations are down slightly, as are those in Spain, Turkey and Belgium. France is doing well.
The 3rd quarter, although up, seems to mark a slowdown in sales... let's wait and see what happens in Q4.
By the ladleful, Alfa Romeo therefore had to register just over 50,000 vehicles in 3 quarters. Barring an accident, it would be logical for it to exceed 70,000 units in 2023, returning to 2019 levels.
Special mentions for the USA and China. The first country may not remain 2nd in the ranking in 2024 if the Tonale fails to live up to its billing against the Dodge Hornetand will certainly not be seduced by the future B-SUV. For the second, Alfa Romeo persists in opening a new dealership while customers are no longer buying the Giulia and Stelvio, will not, a priori, be keen on the Tonale or the future B-SUV.
In conclusion, Yes, Alfa Romeo will always be able to congratulate itself on a 2023 that's bound to be better than previous years. But it's starting from such a low base... Let's not forget that Tonale accounts for over 50 % of sales and that, without him, the brand would be dead.
Everything is said at the end of the article, alfa starts from so low......finally I find that we don't see that much tonal in the streets 🤔
They're all in Italy. If in France, in the first half of the year, there were 1,700 tonales registered, that's not much either. At home, I come across a red, a green and a white one from time to time. But when you look at the top 30 best-selling cars in France, the Tonale isn't in it.
I'm sorry, but here in Switzerland and in the Haute Savoie region, all we see are Giulias and Stelvios, and not just a few, whereas the Tonale is almost never seen, and they're all registered in France. So the Tonale is already a flop. It's selling well because it's new, but we'll be talking about it again in a year or two when it takes a nosedive and never gets back on the sales charts. That's for sure, and I'll bet on it.
You can see the figure for France, but all the manufacturers are deserting France to make way for the Chinese.
In Switzerland, sales are still as strong as ever for a small country.
To say that it's the Tonale that saves Alfa remains to be proven, as there have been no sales of the product itself, and the Dodge shows the opposite.
Alfa's desire for volume is still a generalist concept, whereas it's better to achieve less and be more profitable by raising prices with even more top-of-the-range products and voluntarily limiting the number of products.
If Alfa doesn't want to, it's also because motorsport (which is the best form of advertising in the world, and nothing can replace it) has absolutely nothing to back it up, and it's not the results in F1 that can justify anything. Aston Martin was a perfect example, because at the start of the season, they were on a roll, and the stock market automatically followed suit, as did sales. They started their plunge in the middle of the season and followed the same path in terms of sales and the stock market.
When you say that Alfa is dead, I can assure you that you're wrong in every way, because the 33's popularity, even at a stratospheric price, has proved the opposite, and only Ferrari has managed to sell limited series so quickly (no other brand has managed to do so).
The problem is that when you bring out a product like the Stelvio and Giulia and you see that sales of the V6 versions are the most successful and, above all, the most popular second-hand versions, you have to stop production of the other engines and make the models (Giulia and Stelvio) evolve every year and open their own customization department so that each customer can make a product on demand. We'd also have to add an all-carbon limited edition of the Giulia and Stelvio in GTAc version.
For this to really work in the USA, or indeed anywhere else in the world, we need to get Abarth, Alfa, Lancia and Maserati back into motorsport (even if it means asking Ferrari for support in the categories where they're not there, and they wouldn't mind because they're doing it for Haas in F1, which is largely based in Maranello).
We need to sell Alfa cars in Ferrari showrooms, build new Maserati/Lancia showrooms and do the same for Jeep/Dodge/RAM/Chrysler in the USA.
As long as we keep hearing the same old story about how Alfa has to do volume with cheap products, it won't fill the coffers, and the brand, like all the others, will be sticking its tongue out again and again and again.
Better less sales but real profit.
Ferrari, Lamborghini, Lexus and Porsche do it, and it works without a hitch.
The only Italian brand, for example, that needs to get into FE is Abarth, and get Maserati and DS out of there, just like Peugeot in endurance racing.
No, Alfa will never disappear, because this brand is eternal, as everyone will tell you, and that's why so many groups want to acquire it (VAG in particular).
In some countries, the Tonale accounts for well over 50% of sales. Hence the strong sales growth in many European countries.
Indeed, without the Tonale, sales would have been at an all-time low. The B-SUV is likely to offer little choice of powertrains other than electric, but if it helps Alfa Romeo do better, so much the better. But the brand is still in a niche market, so there's no point in imagining large volumes; the 2010-2012 level would already be a lot.
In the USA, with competition from the Hornet, it's possible that the Tonale won't sell so badly.
One wonders why Alfa Romeo insists on continuing to sell in China, where they buy local, a little German, but certainly not Italian.
Unless the brand has decided to invest specifically in the Alfa B-SUV with a more powerful engine and higher-capacity batteries, it's going to be a flop. The bodywork won't work, and there's a very real risk that the specification sheet will be a copy-paste of the 600e. In other words, it won't offer anything extra, even though the Group has announced a premium positioning. Marketing is all very well, but to be credible, you need something concrete, and that means exceptional mechanical components. In short, invest in the product. Unfortunately, the cost killers are now in charge.
Fredo, on this point I agree with you wholeheartedly, because yes, it's a disaster waiting to happen. You have to wonder if it wasn't done on purpose to invest all the dough in PSA and destroy the Alfa, Lancia and Maserati brands, given the group's deplorable policy.
Even the Germans are virtually eliminated by Tesla and Lexus in China and without the S class and maybach would be in agony like BMW or even worse Audi who have hit rock bottom and are already thinking of leaving the Chinese market and VAG without its Chinese brands would be on the verge of bankruptcy (which is coming fast because German state funds are not eternal) and they'll have to make their products on Chinese platforms for them it's not the fall the hardest... but the landing and without a parachute 🪂 that's called scratching yourself, which is what they're doing right now.
One thing is clear: in countries with high purchasing power, the Giulia and Stelvio sell very well, while in countries with low purchasing power it's the Tonale that brings in the big bucks.
Now, on the question of profitability, I'd like to know how many Tonales you'd have to sell to make the same profit as with a Giulia or the Stelvio.
Why, as some people have been asking for so many years (myself included), not limit Alfa/Lancia/Maserati/Chrysler/Citroën to V6 hybrids by voluntarily limiting the number of cars to be sold per year, and leave the 4-cylinder hybrid and electric ⚡️ to Abarth, Peugeot and Opel????
Do the new Jeep products below the traditional range work? Well, they don't.
Is the Tonale sporty enough to stand out as the benchmark for this range and overshadow all its competitors, even internal ones? Well, no.
Will the small SUV really be profitable? No, it won't.
Did Porsche make compacts or BSUVs to achieve exemplary profitability? Well, no.
Has Porsche, like Lexus, decided to impose annual sales limits? Yes, they have.
If we take an example (e.g. VAG Group), is Audi profitable? Not any more. Was Seat's Tonale-like product profitable? No, they've gone bankrupt. Did VAG and Peugeot's desire to make premium products make them profitable? Well, no. What are the only profitable brands at VAG? Porsche and Lamborghini.
We have to stop thinking in terms of volumes, because that time has TOOOTAAALLY REVOLVED, and now it's quality, limited quantity and profitability that's the future, and anyone who doesn't comply will be wiped off the market for good).
The problem comes from PSA and their mentality of wanting to invest so much money in DS, which is a money pit. Massacring Citroën in favor of Peugeot, which will never be a prenium brand (sales are sinking year after year in the face of Renault and Dacia), and wanting to keep Opel and Vauxhall at the top of the bill when they're nowhere to be seen and cost a sick amount of money.
In the automotive world, we call this self-suicide or voluntary liquidation (surely to take over Chinese brands instead).
Ah, when will Alfa and Maserati start selling in South America? Russia 🇷🇺? In Africa (South Africa has been one of the best markets in the world for Alfa for decades, and the only one with special models, along with Japan).
He has 3 things to do:
-Replace DS with Citroën and share products with Lancia/Chrysler and place them under Maserati management (including showroom and after-sales service).
-Replace Fiat with Abarth (as Exor did with CNH, which didn't stop them from becoming world number 1 to the point of being untouchable).
-Put Peugeot in its place once and for all, by bringing them down from their pedestal as a simple generalist with Opel and getting rid of Vauxhall.
And since stupidity knows no bounds with Tavares and Stellantis, they're going to review the copy of the 9X8 race car, which is a total fiasco, and invest crazy amounts of money in a race car with a concept that doesn't work, to prove that they were right, even though it's a pure financial fiasco that, without the Bop, would have been pummeled by the outside categories! The MC20 is perfect as a base for HyperCars, the Giulia as a GT2 or GT3, but no, they insist on throwing money out the window, when not only is there no PSA product that justifies being in this legendary race, but the group is also a laughing stock in Endurances... DEPLORABLE to be so stupid!
Laminated by the lower categories (and not outside) sorry for the mistake.
Alfiste, it hurts to read that. But I wonder if Alfa is doing what it takes to get there. Currently processor of a Giulia Estrema Q4 diesel, it's not a €10,000 car, I'm fine with it, I love it ❤️ but details that can make a bmist, Mercedes and Audi doubt to come. Let me explain: non-existent showroom, finishing details in the car. Some hard plastics, a touch screen that sometimes doesn't have it anymore, auto high beam that sometimes stays on return light (hello headlamp calls) and a couple of other odds and ends. No, not 68000€.
As for the Germans, the finish isn't top-notch, apart from Porsche, which depends on the model (Lexus is the benchmark in this respect), mechanical reliability is a problem with Audi and gearbox engines with BMW. Fancy electrics and electronics in Mercedes (if it's not running for 3 days in a row, the S-Class is a mess, because the electric wires along the passenger compartment are very poorly insulated and end up rubbing against the bodywork, which drains the batteries and makes the dashboard want to sing Merry Christmas all year round, lighting up all over the place intensively when they don't suddenly switch off and then on again... in short, for cars costing 200,000€, it's downright disgraceful!
Your little problems are things that can be solved. The days of problematic, poorly finished Alfa Romeos go back 25 or 30 years.
Some hard plastics are found in almost all brands, including German and Japanese ones.
The alleged reliability of German cars is a joke, marketing for yahoos who know nothing and believe what they've heard.
Totally agree, alfiste too, it's a shame to see Alfa dealerships closed in Belgium. What's more, my girlfriend ordered a Tonale in February in diesel version and is still waiting for it, now scheduled for January, i.e. almost 1 year's wait, it's not normal. I own a Giulia and it's true that little electronic tuning things (sensors that are too intrusive or not intrusive enough) can make people cringe, but don't think that Germans are better. At work, I drive German cars (Audi, BM) and the perceived quality of the plastics is really not that great...
Even in the new 5 Series there are some hard plastics, yet having experienced the models of the 80s I find the finish sumptuous (below the luxury market of course). Alfa, on the other hand, has (or should have) a much more fluid and pleasing design. As for bugs, they're everywhere, with automation becoming more and more plentiful. In my opinion, the fewer the bugs, the more reliable.
Mercedes is the perfect example. There's too much electronics... and too many breakdowns. BMWs were much better finished in the late 90s and early 2000s. Then they went back to their old ways, with top-notch assembly but unworthy materials for the price.
As far as design is concerned, Alfa's Giulia and BMW's F30 and F80 3-series have achieved perfection, while BMW has gone off on some infamous flights of fancy, but I don't think that the design of the future Giulia can compete with the current one.
TI. I don't agree with you, I have a GIULIA and I've never had any problems. Hard plastics are for everyone, like the so-called "Premium" Germans. I have no electronic bugs, and I know what I'm talking about, having worked at ALFA for 12 years as a mechanic.
like all brands less now.
In my opinion, Maserati, Alfa and Lancia concessions are the way to go.
You can't call yourself premium and arrive at a dealership with Fiat, Jeep, Alfa, Opel, Abarth, Suzuki and Kia in the showroom.
You can't say premium to yourself, when you come to make an appointment to service your Giulia Estrema and the guy at the counter says "is that a Giulietta?"
You can't call yourself premium when you still have too many finishing touches.
In my opinion, Maserati, Alfa and Lancia concessions are the way to go.
You can't call yourself premium and arrive at a dealership with Fiat, Jeep, Alfa, Opel, Abarth, Suzuki and Kia in the showroom.
You can't say premium to yourself, when you come to make an appointment to service your Giulia Estrema and the guy at the counter says "is that a Giulietta?"
You can't call yourself premium when you still have too many finishing touches.
It's obvious that you don't get into Audis, BMWs and Mercedes because hard plastic isn't what's missing (so the finish is, let's say, far from the advertised standing) and the ride comfort is so hard as, a plank of wood that you come out loose with your spine dancing 💃 the mambo with your vertebrae at the end of the day.😖
Alfa...I owned a guilietta for 10 years: My best car! I loved it!
Alfa has been rowing for...decades?
The reason?
She was up against the Germans, and it was a foregone conclusion: the German brand image is superior (yes, it's a shame, but that's the way it is).
Today?
On top of that, the brand has to compete with the Chinese + Tesla...
It's even more complicated for her.
Add to this the lack of Alfa dealerships...the deplorable welcome (but no worse than in other brands)...and the limited choice of vehicles, and you risk killing the brand for good.
For me, its only salvation is to become a very high-end brand like Bugatti.
Create 1 model (like stradale 33) for the ultra-rich.
It's a shame for us poor people...but it's better than letting this brand die....
By no means do German brands have a good reputation, because you can tour Europe, the USA and China to see the extent to which they're being steamrollered by Lexus (and rightly so).
BYD is outnumbering Tesla.
Alfa can easily position itself as a supplier of products that are not in the Ferrari range (the Giulia, Stelvio, 4C, 8C and 33 are proof of this), but like Ferrari, it simply has to voluntarily limit its volume, sell them in showrooms and have the same after-sales service.
For luxury sports cars, do the same with Maserati and Lancia, otherwise they're doomed to die.
One question: if German cars are so extraordinary, why is it that in international organizations, in the USA, in multinationals, banks, transport companies and luxury rentals there are almost only Lexuses?
Reliability, brand image and top-notch after-sales service.
The proof is that BMW and Audi have been off their lists for almost 10 years now, and Mercedes would have been wiped off the map if it hadn't been for armored vehicles and their VAN, and the Lexus VAN is still wreaking havoc and orders are already full for 2024 or even mid-2025.
We're seeing more and more armored Maserati Quattroporté and armored Lexus in Permanent Missions and Embassies in Europe and the USA... proving that the "so-called" German image is a Franco-German utopia.
Sorry to break your dreams.
Old alfis like me, with Alfettas and other GTV V6 coupes, are nostalgic for the Italian stylists of that era. The SUV craze has killed off beautiful cars!
Lexus also had a hand in this when the RS came out with its hybrid system and top-notch handling. This paved the way for other brands when they saw their order books fill up like hotcakes.
I learned quite by chance when I took my Giulietta to a dealer that there was now another version of the Tonale PHEV with 190 hp, in addition to the 280 hp version. It was on a table with CO2 emissions and fuel consumption.
Alfa Romeo has never communicated on this version and you can't even see it or configure it on their website. Their marketing isn't up to scratch, they don't even communicate about the new engines!
Are you surprised? I'm not, otherwise customers will go to see it and turn away from Peugeot and DS, something PSA refuses to see!
It's more important for them to dismantle ex-FCA into little pieces and its potential than to enhance it to finally take market share. They'd rather talk all the time about a BSUV that will be a flop like the Jeep, and say, as they did at the start, that all the problems came from FCA!
It's just incomprehensible. I don't know if this 190-hp version of the Tonale PHEV has any interest, but at least it should be talked about and tested in the automotive press and by specialist youtubers. You can't sell a version that nobody knows about.
Like Alfiste, I'm interested, even if I'm not a buyer.
This version has been around for several months now, as I had asked Alfa Romeo for information, and they told me that it was a motorization reserved more for professionals, created for more advantageous tax reasons.
True, but it could be an alternative between the 130 and 160 hp versions, and the 280 hp PHEV. I don't see why this model should be for pros only, unless you remove the rear seat and make it an SUV.
I think it's possible to talk about rental professionals as a pro.
Where can I rent this 190 hp PHEV model as soon as possible?
Until now, the only Tonale available for rental was the 130 hp hybrid model in Italy.
Pros can be for companies with fleets.
Yes, I'll find out if it's available for rent in Switzerland.
Hallo, gibt es auch schon Zahlen für Österreich?